Dammit, I'm required to have an opinion
about this, aren't I? Um...can I phone a friend?
I feel like my opinions about these
attempts to create webs of continuity with other Disney properties
are difficult to articulate and not necessarily justifiable. I mean,
there's nothing wrong with it, I guess. It just...I don't know,
feels like an effort to accrue good will without earning it, just by
pointing at past stuff that we're assumed to like? Maybe that's it.
Well...I guess it's to no one's great
surprise that we learn, omg, Beakley is or was (it's not quite clear)
an agent of SHUSH. I mean...fine, I guess. It's certainly better
than her original-Ducktales incarnation. And having Van Drake be the
director is...fine, I guess. He doesn't really do much. But I
DEFINITELY cannot abide the idea of Scrooge as
having been part of the organization. That's the kind of thing that,
upon being floated, the other writers should've been like no, dude,
that's a dumb idea, what's wrong with you? All the "Scrooge is
awesome at everything" stuff marred a number of Rosa stories,
and "oh he's awesome at everything AND ALSO HE'S A SECRET
AGENT!" is just so much bad fan fiction. I mean, even beyond
the fact that it egregiously violates everything we know about him.
It's too bad, because if it were just a peripheral thing you could
more or less ignore it, but with him being so damn central to the
plot, you know this is going to be forcibly rubbed in our faces in
future.
Right, the plot is a lotta whatevs for
me. Webby is obsessed with Scrooge suddenly; I know that's sort of
been a thing previously, but it's just so obvious that they're
setting things up so they can have her partner up with him. It's
pretty clumsy. Beakley's kidnapped and they have to go...place. To
do...thing. There's a FOWL agent, Black Heron, and I can only
imagine the force of will it must've taken them to not just stick
Steelbeak in there. Gotta save SOME hollow fan service for later, I
guess. I was wholly unmoved by references to nutmeg tea and
unicorns, and I refuse to say anything about any references to a show
that was itself inspired (if that's the word) by bad candy. That's
just too much for me to take. The end.
It is totally unequivocally wrong to have Scrooge be a spy, especially to have him be a spy who presumably has to take orders from someone. Even in the past. Just no.
ReplyDeleteAnd it's just one more thing thrown into the already-too-complicated mix in this overall narrative, and my strongest reaction is, "OK, I really don't care about the spy subplot. Too Many Characters. Too Many Narrative Lines. Who the fuck cares."
I did enjoy some of the Webby/Scrooge interaction. One question: when Scrooge invites her to call him "Uncle Scrooge," my first thought was, "Wait, do HD&L call him 'Uncle Scrooge' in this show?" Kind of odd for Webby to do it if they don't. But it shows how much attention I've been willing to pay this show that I'm not sure. They just called him "Scrooge" at the beginning, right? Have they continued to do that?
One other positive reaction: I thought the episode handled the transitions from present to past to present quite well.
You have to wonder: you have the Della thing, you have the Lena thing, and now the Shush thing and, yes, the Gummi Bears thing: is it even marginally possible that these will ever relate in a satisfying way? Because it seems much more likely that it will just continue to be a big ol' jumble.
DeleteI can easly see Magica and Della thing being connected - like maybe the reason why Della is gone has something to do with why Magica is the Evil Shadow®
DeleteAd for the gummi berry juice... That's more tricky. Maybe Magica is use it as part of her plot and team-up with Heron? They both obssesed over what is "the source of unlimited power".
P.S.
How nice that only female character's got to drink the super soldier serum and got all the cool action in the climax. Good for them! ^_^
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DeleteAnd what about Quackfaster? Is she a SHUSH agent? Related to the Della story? Have we even seen her since "Dime Chase"? I can't bring myself to care about her. She's not a character, she's just One More Damn Puzzle Piece.
DeleteWhat do I care about? I care about how Lena will make the break with Magica, and I care about whether she will be Webby's friend. I am curious about what will be revealed about Della, but I have grave doubts that this revelation will be satisfying, even within the DT narrative world. My worst fear is that they'll tell us that Magica *is* Della gone to the dark side. (Hey, have we ever seen them together? Are they even known to have been alive and operating at the same time?) "No, Dewey, I am your mother."
I think Della thing had a GREAT set up but episodes developing the mystery are so far in between you forget it's there.
DeleteIn something like Gravity Falls they actualy put efford to intrigue the viewers with the mystery even when they waren't adding anything new to the table.
At the same time somethnig like Steven Universe intrigues all the time but adds new information about the mystery so slowley it's just get frustrating... With DuckTales it's not frustrating as much "Oh, yhe. I totaly forgat that thing is important"
Fans are talking, of course, but I doubt the Magica=Della solution will be right. Remember the "blood feud" line? And Angones has been observed to make fun of this theory alongside the dozen other crazy ones fans have made up concerning Magica and Della.
DeletePan: Yes, exactly, and that's in part a side effect of the "Too Many Characters--Too Many Narrative Lines" problem. They may bring them all together in the end, but in the meantime, they can't keep the viewer interested in all of them at once.
DeleteWhy didn't Dewey use Only Child Day to do something dangerous to seek info about Della, when his brothers would not be allowed to ask what he was up to?
Achille: Well, I'll be relieved if that's not the solution. Though I suppose it could help explain Magica's obsession with besting Scrooge :) ! "You ruined my life (by leading me into adventure where I was lured to the dark side), now I'm going to ruin yours."
By the way, let me repeat my question: Do HD&L call Scrooge "Uncle Scrooge" in this show?
DeleteI watch few random scenes (Mt Neverest, McManor McMyster) and from what I can tell belive they call him uncle Scrooge when they directly adress him and call him Scrooge when they talk between each other.
DeleteNot a fan of kids calling adults by their first name in general.
Well, in the comic books, Donald Duck is a secret agent working simultaneously for 3 different agencies...one of them NAMED after Scrooge.
ReplyDeleteThe name-drops and nods are kinda annoying because the shows they're referencing weren't bad; it's not like when Tom Ruegger writing an episode of "Yogi's Treasure Hunt" where Dick Dastardly tortured Yogi and Boo-Boo by forcing them to watch reruns of "Dastardly and Muttley".
This is the only time an episode MIGHT have been inspired by a casual glance at that wackiness.
Wait wait wait, three? Three? There's the M.I.A., and there's the Agency from DoubleDuck… what's the third? What, the Guardians of the Galaxy from Pikappa? Surely not!
DeleteI don't know the English names but :
Delete- There is the DoubleDuck one.
- The paranormal one when Donald and Fethry works for to fight aliens, monster etc. I never remember the name of that one.
- The one that Scrooge works that was created to protect his money empire (at least in Polish the name was pun on Coffey)
Sorry, not pun but abbreviation.
DeleteDonald and Fethry are in TNT, the Tamers of Nonhuman Threats. Maybe Achille didn't think of that because it's not a spy agency? But Donald is certainly a "secret agent" in it.
DeleteWhat are the full English names of the other two? Is MIA the one Scrooge runs, or is there another agency named after Scrooge? Have any of those stories actually appeared in English? As for DoubleDuck, I've succeeded in my attempt to wipe that series entirely from my brain.
Well, Donald being a secret agent is a completely different kettle of fish from Scrooge being one. Anyway, these aren't continuity that persists throughout all comics; it's only something you pull out as needed for a given story. I certainly wouldn't just assume Donald is a secret agent unless it actually comes up in the story.
DeleteMIA (McDuck Intelligence Agency) is the one Scrooge runs. Yes, a couple of these stories have appeared in English: Moldfinger and From Zantaf with Lumps are both MIA stories.
DeleteYeah, I hadn't thought of the T.N.T. because they're not really a spy agency.
I must agree that Scrooge as a secret agent isn't a good idea at all (amusing though it was to see him costumed as John Steed), but I, for one, think the plot as such of the episode was well-executed. It's a decent James Bond homage, I really like Webby's dynamic with Scrooge, and the tie-in with Gummi Bears amused me.
ReplyDeleteI woudn't mind it if they would explain it tad more, beyond "he is just doing this for fun". Maybe if it was his first Co-operation with S.U.S.H. since maybe he is financing the organisation now and has the "If you wan't to do something do it yourelf" rule - why waste money to hire agents when you can go alone?
DeleteThat "show that was itself inspired (if that's the word) by bad candy" was... actualy quite good. I would even go as far to say I like it over oryginal DuckTales. I think homage here was cute and it's nice that people who made this show also has appriciation for it.
ReplyDeleteIt's fascinating to see how this show, despite being shallowly written, unappealingly animated, and obnoxiously overacted, still retains a devoted fan following (more at the Feathery Society than here) which treats it like it's actually on a part with the comics or even the old Ducktales. I think the key to the show's undeserved popularity with self-proclaimed comics fans lies in its cynical strategy of constantly tossing off arcane references to Barks, Rosa, the Disney Afternoon, and other fondly-remembered pieces of pop culture (witness, in this episode, Scrooge's John Steed outfit and Black Heron's Lt. Uhura getup). Fans feel both smart and nostalgic at catching the references, and feel that the showrunners must "know their stuff." This extensive but easy strewing of "Easter eggs" saves the showrunners from having to expend much effort on plotting or characterization, since the goodwill that the finding of the eggs earns from the trivia-obsessed fans blinds those fans to the fact that the show is a trainwreck in every department that matters.
ReplyDeleteI must disagree most vehemently.
DeleteThe story sometimes forgets the right balance between humor and tension, but it is far from a "trainwreck", and would be so regardless of the continuity nods. The animation is, at times, fantastic, make what you will of the angular designs (just think of the Scrooge/Goldie duel or some of the Money Shark). The characters are, for the most part, likeable and consistently-written. The acting/casting is spot-on. With these three alone, it's impossible to say it's a trainwreck "in every department that matters" — so now the animation, the acting and the characters don't matter in an animted series? Oh, and the music is pretty good too, though it's no Ron Jones.
And I don't think the throwing of continuity references is "cynical". Just reading Frank Angones's blog is enough to see that he is a genuine fan, and by all accounts so are the other writers. He's throwing about the continuity references because he feels very strongly that if he were the viewer, he'd love finding every one of them; think Don Rosa.
Could be that they're bad, and blinded by their own love of easter eggs. But they're not doing this out of cynicism.
I agree with Achille. I'm currentry writing for new stories for old Polish comic book series I grow up with and honestly as profesional and "stick to the story I'm writing now" I'm trying to be... it's just beyond tempting to whenever opertunity arrives to thrown in a wink/easter egg/fanserive. It's part of the fan and what makes your brain rolling.
DeleteAnd it's not even even the case of "Oh, fans will like it" as much "Oh, it's this characters house! It would be so cool to have object from this story in". Even Rosa said he dosen't do it for the fans as much to amused himself.
I think while they are trying to do to their own thing they still love the source material for what it is.
While I also don't think the "Scrooge use to work as a spy" thing is the best idea I also don't see it as some heresy worth geting upset over. Maybe they realy asume it would be a cool idea. Not every's fans interpretation of Duckverse is the same.
P.S. I was recently reminded when they desrcibe this episode in the panel year ago they clearly desrcibe Von Drake as working for Scrooge as his top scientist before Gyro... maybe they made some changes in the script.
DJ didn't say the show was poorly animated, he said it was unappealingly animated. A legitimate judgment of artistic taste, which I share.
Delete"The characters are, for the most part, likeable"--that brought me up short. Well, maybe, numerically? Webby and Lena are likeable, and Huey and Dewey are more or less likeable. Donald? I suppose I'm glad he's a protective parent, but I don't understand him as a character. (Why doesn't he insist that the kids live with him, off the McDuck campus? Is this a world where he doesn't have custody of them?) I do not find this Scrooge particularly likeable. Or human. Launchpad is too dumb. And Louie and Gyro and Goldie are so massively unlikeable that they detract from the likeability of the others, by association.
By contrast, in "Legend of the Three Caballeros," the three Caballeros, Xandra, Ari, April, May & June are all likeable. Even Sheldgoose (did I spell it right?) is quite likeable, though I don't want him to win. And Clinton Coot, Bear Rug, whoever that flying creature is who hangs out with the villains, owl-Merlin, the new goblin king: all likeable. I can't think of one minor or one-shot character in New DuckTales whom I really liked, other than My Little Kelpies, in a dark-humor way. Possibly Fenton's Mama will be the first.
DeleteSpeaking of Lunchpad being to dumb to find likeabe... I don't know. I think there is a way of having dumb character and still having them be charming - Winnie the Pooh and his entrie supoting cast is the best example. These characters are far some briliant but have so much childlike innocence it's hard not to love them... in fact I think a character who is stupid to point of absurdity work better then character that is just plain dumb and come of as "Just shut up and go home".
DeleteI think Luchpad had the charming stupidity thing in some episodes (Terror of Teriferians, B.U.D.D.Y. system) but the wrong one in others ("Mummies of Toth Rah", some parts of "Moonshire")
True, a character can be dumb and likeable. I just think that Launchpad is dumb in a way that is not likeable. It's more annoying in some episodes than in others, I agree.
DeleteIt helps to be dumb/likeable if you're a child (as Winnie-the-Pooh and Piglet are).
Question of mileage. When I say likeable, I don't necessarily mean in the sense that I'd be friends with them if they were the real world, only in the sense that I actively enjoy seeing them on-screen and find their personality/répartie engaging, which is definitely the case for Louie, Gyro and, yes, 2017!Glomgold.
DeleteI greatly like this Scrooge, which probably has to do with the same reason you couldn't get into Doctor Who — you seem to have a harder time than me getting over overly-competent characters. Speaking of Who, there is little doubt that Tennant's acting has to do with my appreciation of 2017!Scrooge, for the record.
I'm a bit on the fence for Goldie and Launchpad. I don't actively dislike 2017!Goldie, but I feel as though she could get old really quickly; I mostly like her as a residual effect of the crushing similarities I find between her and River Song, but Goldie has much too little fo River's sympathetic, emotionally-nuanced side. Time will tell. And Launchpad was, as we discussed, much too dumb at first, in a rather irritating way, but B.U.D.D.Y. System seems to have redeemed him (we'll see if they can keep it up).
I think B.U.D.D.Y. system work so well as while Lunchad still has his IQ as low as usal they concetrated on his other trades like being loyal to Scrooge, wanting to prove himself, being reqles, optymistic, brave, a good friend etc. so he felt like much richer character and the stupidity wasn't the focus of his actions.
DeleteIn somthing like "Toth Rah' they only focus on him being stupid and not taking the situation serioius and he comes of as annoying to the viewer as he is to Scrooge.
As for Scrooge - I liked him a lot in "Whoo-hoo", then he got slowly started to geting more and more bland and it wasn't just the lack of "he's so cheap" jokes (my friend Mateusz Lis put it the best - the started to feel more like Generic Grandpa rather then a unique character that he is ment to be) but somewhere after "Moonshire" he kicked back into much more colorful personality.
DeleteAchille: I believe I was using the word "likeable" pretty much in the way you are defining it. I don't want to be friends with Sheldgoose, or owl-Merlin, or even with May. Or with, for another example, Cumberbatch's Sherlock. But I find them all engaging and would look forward to getting to know them better in story form. I wouldn't say that of Webby 1987, for instance, except in occasional episodes. She's usually too girly-sweet to be likeable or interesting, as Launchpad 2017 is mostly too dumb. And 2017 Louie, Gyro and Goldie are actively unpleasant and off-putting characters to me. It's not just that I don't want to be friends with them; I really don't want to see or hear them or get to know them better. Not funny, not interesting, not intriguing. True, I resent their displacing characters I *do* care about--but I think in each instance, I wouldn't find these characters engaging even if they had different names.
DeleteI'm not arguing for my reaction over yours, here, I'm just clarifying what I mean by "likeable."
Incidentally, I would advise against calling people who don't share your opinions "self-proclaimed comic fans" with a contemptuous subtext. Of course comic fans are "self-proclaimed"! Do you perhaps they need a license? Or perhaps the blessing of a "legitimate" fans' board?
DeleteI was definitely thinking of the TNT and MIA when I mentioned Donald's varying Secret Agent allegiances, plus in the debut TNT story, it's mentioned that their work is "Secret! Totally secret!" It's not espionage, it's ghostbusting, but the business model is the same.
ReplyDeleteAnd because Boom!'s translations of the Doubleduck stories weren't so hot, I had skipped reading them altogether and was never familiar with their agency name..but it was the 3rd group I was alluding to. Pity the guys at IDW haven't revisited that stuff.
Frank Angones says a lot of things, but at the end of the day, around/across the web, of the 20 episodes that have aired in the U.S., only 5 episodes are "liked"/"kinda-sorta okay" among everyone:
1. "Woo-oo!"
2. "The Great Dime Chase!"
3. "The House of The Lucky Gander!"
4. "Jaw$!"
5. "From The Confidential Case Files of Agent 22!"
Of those on that list, only 3 & 5 are credited with a script by the same writer, Christian Magalhaes, so I suppose any upcoming scripts from HIM are a safer bet than a script credited to Frank, Madison Bateman or Colleen Evanson, even though they got 1 episode apiece, respectively, on that list.
And I don't know if it's because of him or in spite of him, but all the episodes scripted by Bob Snow have been poorly received.
Humm... Interesting. If I would make my top 5 list "Beware the B.U.D.D.Y." system would be on the above list in place of "Dime chase" (which I liked but not loved) and not sure how I feel about the "Case files"... propably would replaced it with "Terror of terry-ferians" which I think is very underrated episode.
DeleteIt's unsurprising you'd forget the name of the DoubleDuck agency, since it doesn't actually have one. To preserve its secrecy it is only known, even to its members, as The Agency.
DeleteThe SPECTRE-slash-Mafia criminal organization is, likewise, only called The Organization.
DeleteThe ORGANIZATION? That names sends me a cold shiver down my spine! What can be more scary then criminal organziation that... is organize? Unlike these other organizaton that... also are organize... in fact propably better organize since the fact they don't have to bring attention to the fact they are organized means they aren't insecure about their organizing status as well are so good in what they are doing they have enough time to hire copyrighters to come up with catchy names for their crime empries... unlike SOME... Em...
DeleteBut yhe! Beware of THE ORGANIZATION!
I dunno; I found all of those episodes pretty meh, as my blog posts show. I guess "Jaws" was okay.
Delete@ GeoX
DeleteWith your overly-purist attitude (not that you don't have excellent critiques at times), I wouldn't be surprised if you found all the episodes "meh".
I've stopped watching this show. It's not me consciously rage-quitting, I've just found that I'm consistently unexcited about new episodes being released and I usually put off watching them because it just feels like a chore. Even the episodes that are overall good have elements that consistently leave me bored and frustrated. Since I'm not writing a blog, I'm not going to force myself to keep watching a show I don't enjoy.
ReplyDeleteI think the Three Caballeros show has really put this show's failing in perspective. Legend of the Three Caballeros is far from perfect, but it is way more consistently fun than this and doesn't suffer from DuckTales' insufferable smart-aleck attitude.
"B.U.D.D.Y System" seems more popular for it's parts rather than as a whole episode..certainly the 1st three minutes alone.
ReplyDelete"Terrer of The Terra-Firmians" was also written by Christian Magalhaes, so that further supports the idea his scripts are the ones likely to be good. We're already close to the halfway mark of the standard 52-episode order..It's likely this is what it's going to be..unless some new writer emerges and blows the current staff efforts away.
Disney should hire someone like Aaron Ehasz or Marty Isenberg.
DeleteOr perhaps even, they stop mistreating Greg Weisman.
nhhh yes i can't just make myself care of this show... i can stomach different versions but so many of these new interpretations don't have the qualities i like these characters for... glomgold especially and i love him... i was fine with don rosa's depiction because at least he felt like a threat most of the time but in dt2017 he's just so boring.
ReplyDeletemost of the references to the comics just take me out of the story because i do recognize them but it just makes me go 'well now i'm reminded of the comics and how different this show is'
but nhgghhh maybe i'm a salty fan. i just feel mislead and lied to
Honestly I'm done with this show and at this point I'm just worried that the interpretations I really hate will bleed into the comics. nghh maybe i'm just a salty fan who feels over protective of a fictional capitalist duck or two but ngh.
ReplyDeleteThe biggest problem with DuckTales is all the references to Barks, Rosa, Darkwing Duck, Gummi Bears and anything else never feel like more than just pandering to fans, trying to get them to like the new show despite all the weird changes they make to it.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I mean. I'm not opposed to references and fanservice, but i'd like it to actually help ground the series into the comics... something that gives me some extra understanding or at least is just sorta there.
DeleteInstead it's like,
A character lists placenames from don rosa's comics, and I go 'well that makes no sense because I've read the comics in question so i know that list makes no sense and now i'm taken out of the story'
I'd say the ending of Season 1 exemplifies this the most.
DeleteOh look, Lena's just died, Donald's just lost his houseboat again, and Magica has gotten away.
LET'S GO FOR A SWIM IN THE MONEY BIN!!!!!!!!!!
And then the writers reveal Della (FAR TOO EARLY) and (ab)use the Moon Theme to cover up their poor conclusions to the season.
I don't think it's awful, but it could be better. I'm hoping it continues with a different team behind it after the 52-episode mark and the network orders changes to freshen things up...maybe put the focus back on Donald and Scrooge..send the nephews off to "summer camp"..indefinitely.
ReplyDeleteLet's darken the tone, age up the kids over time, and not be afraid to deal with mature subject matter.
DeleteIf HDL were the products of a one-night-stand (and this seems most likely), don't be cowardly and at least imply this, writers.
If Webby's parents were murdered, please explore this, writers.
If Hortense and Quackmore have died, please ya know, use this as story material, writers!
I don't think it's awful, but it could be better. I'm hoping it continues with a different team behind it after the 52-episode mark and the network orders changes to freshen things up...maybe put the focus back on Donald and Scrooge..send the nephews off to "summer camp"..indefinitely.
ReplyDeleteKnowing the Disney Channel, that “Nephews (and Webby) go to summer camp” idea would end up being season three...getting the adults out of the way.
Delete